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welcome to somewhere in the skies I'm

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your host Ryan Sprague today I'm

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speaking with filmmaker Jonathan Berman

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about his latest documentary calling all

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earthlings flying saucers people from

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outer space George Van Tassel let's talk

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about this time machine you're building

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down in California the integratron was

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built by George Van Tassel he worked for

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Howard Hughes on advanced aircraft

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he was a UFO contactee I was sound

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asleep when he awakened the man got off

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with his ship and approached me before I

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even knew there was a ship down or come

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off and jump he said he had contact with

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those aliens came to land gave them

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assigned to that integratron the

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integratron was to engineer a title of

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genetic reprogramming leading to

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longevity returned beautifully the

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integratron is an electrostatic

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generator it's meticulously built and

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the science behind this machine is Tesla

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science if anybody tried to turn it on

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without being phased they said it'd be

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like a hundred little weapons

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you do not want people to know that

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there were other sources of energy he

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started getting more and more paranoid

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about the government watching what he

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was doing I can see why he was a marked

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person they tried to kill George it

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smells of conspiracy it's almost like

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there's some sort of experiment around

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here that we're all inside of the

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depression of that information is the

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highest type of treason

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there's a lot of mystery about Roy Van

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Tassel let's look at the evidence it's

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there something was working got friends

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calling all Earthlings explores a

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mid-century UFO cult led by one time

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Howard Hughes confidant George phantasm

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Van Tassel claimed to have combined

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alien guidance with the writings of

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adventure and physicist Nikola Tesla and

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other controversial science to build an

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electromagnetic time machine he dubbed

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the integra Tron was he insane or could

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the dome really break through the

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boundaries of space time and energy

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FBI agents worked against Van Tassel and

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the alternative community that formed

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out of his work what he finished the

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integratron

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before the government finished him tune

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in right now to find out

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this is somewhere in the skies the

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brains

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[Music]

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Jonathan thank you so much for joining

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me today on somewhere in the skies I'm

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excited I'm really glad we could make

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this happen Ryan when I heard you were a

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a fellow New Yorker and a filmmaker I

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knew I had to get you on the show

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Jonathan I've been following the

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trajectory of this film for a while now

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and I'm so excited to see that it's

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finally out we can all see it and today

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we're gonna talk all about calling all

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earthlings but before we dive in man

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you're fresh off the heels of a

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screaming am I correct could you tell us

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a little about how that all went down

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well you know you make these films and

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it's a very long lead trajectory

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although I convinced myself that it was

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only gonna take a year because that's

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what you do and seven years later we

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just came off of some wonderful

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festivals and theatrical screenings of

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the calling all Earthlings film and and

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then this week which is about as we're

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gonna talk about George Van Tassel and

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his activities out in the deserts of

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California and Joshua Tree area so we

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filmed in Joshua Tree and that was like

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seven years ago and I returned Friday

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night to show the film and it was just a

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wonderful feeling of returning and

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people being into it and you know it's

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always sensitive about how a community

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is portrayed and whether they accept it

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or not and that was a process that I

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could tell you about so it's really fun

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really great scene out there still you

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know it's nice good people absolutely

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yeah we'll definitely get into that

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community that's a big aspect of all of

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this that I do I'd love to discuss but

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again before we get to that I always

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like to hear the origins story of you

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know how filmmakers became who they are

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you know the classic origin comic book

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thing so before we get into that what

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made you want to become a filmmaker in

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the first place

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oh you know I grew up watching a lot of

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TV and reading books I was I was a

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little for you know for a shis reader as

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a kid and when I watched a ton of TV the

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Brady Bunch and the Partridge Family and

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gets smart in all these shows and

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eventually I felt like I had so much

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input that I wanted to put put something

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back out

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so and you know growing up I guess what

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we thought of was middle class I don't

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know if that exists anymore I had the

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luxury in my mind certainly of or maybe

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a luxury of pursuing art but I think it

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was just more like an intuitive thing I

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just started playing music when I was a

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kid and having being in band and and we

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shot little little separate movies you

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know like like and what was that film

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with uh the Spielberg films

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he always has separating his stuff so

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yeah so shooting movies when we were 13

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little like karate movies and mafia

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movies putting talcum powder in our hair

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and all that stuff so between the music

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and the and the filmmaking I I got into

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making art or whatever you call it media

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yeah exactly I know it's a very

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amorphous term for sure well one of your

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films really caught my attention when I

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saw the trailer for it so if you don't

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mind I'd love to ask you about my friend

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Paul this really stuck out to me could

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you tell us a little bit about this film

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and what it meant to you well that was

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definitely the most personal of my films

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growing up in Long Island on the south

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shore

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one of my bests closest friends like

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Paul and my friend Adam is also in the

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film Paul uh was a total character he

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was always one step ahead of us

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and he became a bank robber and I became

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a filmmaker and my friend Paul is the

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story of our reunion so it's a it's

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really a film about living on the edge

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and friends and family of of people with

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mental illness really because he was

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bipolar so what you find out as the film

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goes on you know when the euphoria we

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ride the euphoria of Paul's journey as a

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Deadhead and just getting more and more

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into drugs and all that and and then

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becoming a bank robber and then we kind

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of move back and say wow what is this

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what is this right yeah and I'm sure

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everyone can relate some friend or

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family member who just takes a

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trajectory you never really expected

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you know when I when I screened that

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film which we did with Public Television

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itvs which is this great branch of

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American Public TV when we did that I

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found that there were two people two

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different types we could break it down

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and go binary here the people who had

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had experiences with people off the off

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the charts in their life and understood

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what I was talking about in the film and

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those who didn't some people were like

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oh why wouldn't you let Paul stay at

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your house it's like okay you've never

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experienced just like going with the

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lunar getting drawn into somebody's

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world and drama and not being able to or

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wanting to right yeah I can only imagine

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man I'm sure it is a very powerful film

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I I hope to take a look at that soon one

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of the other things on your resume that

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really caught my attention the last

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little question here off-topic but was

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toxic avenger - how'd the hell did this

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happen

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I love Troma yeah thanks for asking you

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know when after I um went up to McGill

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and I played in R&B bands played life a

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Big Show band up there and was still you

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know learning about making movies I came

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back to New York and worked in edit

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rooms and one of the Edit rooms I work

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did was that the legendary Troma and I

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was a Prentice assistant editor and we

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just did it all and for toxic avenger

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tar part - i did some of the voices in

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the film so i did some of the ADR you

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know the off-screen voices as well as

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the karate sounds and we were doing

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sound outta day we would get calls you

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know to it you know you work crazy hours

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in film and it was like 2:00 a.m. and

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we're sound editing the film and

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somebody would call up and be like you

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guys stole my script and and and we're

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gonna blow up that i'm gonna blow up the

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building you know and we'd be like oh

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well call back on go back on office

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hours you know Lloyd and Michael are

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here we're just working here so it was

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fun and working with Lloyd Kaufman is a

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hoot he's a great guy and he really

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understands audiences - no absolutely I

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believe I met him at a Comic Con one

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year and yeah if you've ever seen

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passion in someone you know an executive

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of

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a film company that's the example right

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there for sure yeah Lloyd was more the

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creative and Michael was the business

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side so he always wanted to make sure

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that people were getting it and I feel

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the same way I don't want I don't want

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myself to be too esoteric you know I

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love you know out there avantgarde stuff

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sometimes I like to balance it out and

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I'm kind of try to be make make films

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that are understood by a tent day you

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know the people and I mean that's very

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prevalent in your your recent film

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calling all earthlings so before we get

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to the actual story Jonathan of George

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Vance how so how did you come to

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discover this man and what sort of

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prompted you to want to make a film

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about him and his work you know I'd

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finished my last film commune which is

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about the black bear ranch commune kind

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of legendary group of people getting

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together to change the world nothing

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nothing too audacious there and I was

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walking around la as much as one can

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walk around to LA and I walked into the

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Bodhi tree bookstore and it's his

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bookstore that's like deals with a

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supernatural yeah well you're uh

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coast-to-coast kind of stuff somewhere

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in the skies and beyond you know uh

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spirituality and personal growth and I

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spied this book and was about the

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California being a spiritual state and

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it was photographs and one of the

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photographs was of the integra Tron dome

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and I just saw this white kind of Gothic

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dome with his sign perched on it in the

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middle of the desert and the sign said

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for basic experimentation in life

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extension and I was hooked so I knew I

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had to go out there you know right right

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and you know that the integrity on

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itself which we'll get into is so iconic

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now I mean my friend send me picture

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messages all the time of them going

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there and going out in the desert and

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just just to see it this like relic that

272
00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:38,320
just sort of stands there again we'll

273
00:11:41,940 --> 00:11:40,210
get into that but like you just said you

274
00:11:44,010 --> 00:11:41,950
went out there and when you decided to

275
00:11:46,710 --> 00:11:44,020
make the film you embedded yourself into

276
00:11:48,350 --> 00:11:46,720
this community to make the film so what

277
00:11:50,400 --> 00:11:48,360
was that like I can't even imagine

278
00:11:53,579 --> 00:11:50,410
that's an interesting question because

279
00:11:56,030 --> 00:11:53,589
um when I made commune I went up to

280
00:11:58,040 --> 00:11:56,040
Siskiyou County and I was

281
00:12:00,829 --> 00:11:58,050
like well that's gonna be pretty exotic

282
00:12:02,600 --> 00:12:00,839
and I get there I'm like God and first

283
00:12:04,670 --> 00:12:02,610
when we make comm be immersed the first

284
00:12:06,590 --> 00:12:04,680
thing that happened was we kind of got

285
00:12:08,569 --> 00:12:06,600
like interrogated by all the people in

286
00:12:11,509 --> 00:12:08,579
the commune was like a big reunion

287
00:12:13,610 --> 00:12:11,519
so from ages 8 to 80 they were like who

288
00:12:16,670 --> 00:12:13,620
are you you're the media what brings you

289
00:12:18,319 --> 00:12:16,680
here you know and then after kind of

290
00:12:21,410 --> 00:12:18,329
getting passing through the trial by

291
00:12:23,480 --> 00:12:21,420
fire with them and them on the black

292
00:12:25,220 --> 00:12:23,490
bear ranch calm you understanding that

293
00:12:27,829 --> 00:12:25,230
we weren't there to get them because the

294
00:12:31,340 --> 00:12:27,839
media often gets stuff wrong right the

295
00:12:33,800 --> 00:12:31,350
media so with this project there was

296
00:12:36,079 --> 00:12:33,810
there's like us a state that you go

297
00:12:39,680 --> 00:12:36,089
through where you're like on on

298
00:12:42,290 --> 00:12:39,690
probation yeah so I got out there and

299
00:12:44,090 --> 00:12:42,300
now and wet pass through this trial by

300
00:12:46,970 --> 00:12:44,100
fire which I could tell you about but um

301
00:12:49,249 --> 00:12:46,980
I realized oh my god these and it and I

302
00:12:50,930 --> 00:12:49,259
really realized it again this weekend

303
00:12:52,610 --> 00:12:50,940
like these are the these are the cool

304
00:12:54,829 --> 00:12:52,620
people I love to hang out with these are

305
00:12:58,910 --> 00:12:54,839
you know just like in Georgia's day all

306
00:13:03,769 --> 00:12:58,920
the musicians and artists and and desert

307
00:13:05,660 --> 00:13:03,779
rats and inventors and people who also

308
00:13:07,699 --> 00:13:05,670
may not have the money to live in a

309
00:13:10,189 --> 00:13:07,709
Beverly Hills mansion as somebody says

310
00:13:12,110 --> 00:13:10,199
in the film there is something about the

311
00:13:16,189 --> 00:13:12,120
desert that was just always magical and

312
00:13:19,100 --> 00:13:16,199
and so I feel very kin so a lot of

313
00:13:21,110 --> 00:13:19,110
people are yeah I know what you mean man

314
00:13:24,189 --> 00:13:21,120
I mean being in downtown Los Angeles

315
00:13:27,259 --> 00:13:24,199
like you get one perspective of

316
00:13:29,090 --> 00:13:27,269
California here but the minute you step

317
00:13:31,689 --> 00:13:29,100
outside of that bubble you know like any

318
00:13:34,009 --> 00:13:31,699
city I would imagine and branch out

319
00:13:36,470 --> 00:13:34,019
something just pulls you you know

320
00:13:38,569 --> 00:13:36,480
whenever I even see the word Mojave I

321
00:13:41,389 --> 00:13:38,579
just I want to get out there I just want

322
00:13:43,910 --> 00:13:41,399
to go and explore it and as an East

323
00:13:45,829 --> 00:13:43,920
Coaster like I feel that even more now

324
00:13:48,559 --> 00:13:45,839
this magnetic pole to something I never

325
00:13:51,110 --> 00:13:48,569
experienced I don't know about you but I

326
00:13:52,939 --> 00:13:51,120
you know it's also like small-town

327
00:13:56,059 --> 00:13:52,949
living in a good way because you know

328
00:13:57,980 --> 00:13:56,069
everyone like you go to the saloon and

329
00:13:59,420 --> 00:13:57,990
it's like oh there's this guy there's

330
00:14:00,769 --> 00:13:59,430
that guy and everyone's friends so you

331
00:14:03,470 --> 00:14:00,779
can't let your guard down a little bit

332
00:14:05,569 --> 00:14:03,480
right right I mean I know living in New

333
00:14:07,189 --> 00:14:05,579
York I don't know about you but you know

334
00:14:09,019 --> 00:14:07,199
you find your pockets every now and

335
00:14:09,810 --> 00:14:09,029
again but I couldn't even tell you my

336
00:14:12,240 --> 00:14:09,820
next-door neighbor

337
00:14:15,150 --> 00:14:12,250
named in my apartment building it's just

338
00:14:17,310 --> 00:14:15,160
so you know everyone sort of on guard

339
00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:17,320
and on their own so that's funny because

340
00:14:21,510 --> 00:14:19,090
in New York I don't feel that way but I

341
00:14:23,940 --> 00:14:21,520
it is a thing in New York where you like

342
00:14:25,530 --> 00:14:23,950
I don't know if it's historically but

343
00:14:27,090 --> 00:14:25,540
you don't want to know your neighbors it

344
00:14:28,170 --> 00:14:27,100
because when you're blasting your music

345
00:14:31,110 --> 00:14:28,180
at 3:00 in the morning you don't want

346
00:14:33,420 --> 00:14:31,120
them complaining exactly maybe that was

347
00:14:36,540 --> 00:14:33,430
it maybe that's it I always felt very at

348
00:14:37,830 --> 00:14:36,550
home in New York actually um but la it's

349
00:14:40,830 --> 00:14:37,840
a whole nother world you know it's a

350
00:14:42,930 --> 00:14:40,840
different geographic and a cultural

351
00:14:45,960 --> 00:14:42,940
makeup you know this is this was Mexico

352
00:14:48,210 --> 00:14:45,970
and really she's you know supposed to

353
00:14:50,280 --> 00:14:48,220
still be part of that country and and

354
00:14:52,170 --> 00:14:50,290
really yeah when you look at Los Angeles

355
00:14:54,720 --> 00:14:52,180
itself it's a bubble of kind of

356
00:14:57,420 --> 00:14:54,730
english-speakers surrounded by what

357
00:14:58,710 --> 00:14:57,430
continues to be it and I'm not an

358
00:15:01,140 --> 00:14:58,720
ethnographer really I'm not an

359
00:15:05,220 --> 00:15:01,150
anthropologist it does seem like there

360
00:15:08,310 --> 00:15:05,230
is a bubble here and I feel like like I

361
00:15:11,220 --> 00:15:08,320
felt a lot of the early settlers early

362
00:15:14,240 --> 00:15:11,230
people who came from other places out to

363
00:15:17,430 --> 00:15:14,250
California probably felt this kind of a

364
00:15:20,310 --> 00:15:17,440
alien nation absolutely what better

365
00:15:23,550 --> 00:15:20,320
place to to put this mission you know

366
00:15:27,780 --> 00:15:23,560
into fruition as Van Tassel did so I

367
00:15:29,730 --> 00:15:27,790
mean who who was George Van Tassel what

368
00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:29,740
exactly was his connections to these

369
00:15:35,550 --> 00:15:31,330
people you mentioned in the film Howard

370
00:15:38,280 --> 00:15:35,560
Hughes I mean Nikola Tesla what what is

371
00:15:39,990 --> 00:15:38,290
this well just to take a step back since

372
00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:40,000
we were on that that taught that thread

373
00:15:44,640 --> 00:15:41,890
yeah you know so many people came out

374
00:15:46,290 --> 00:15:44,650
here seeking something they were the

375
00:15:49,380 --> 00:15:46,300
Seekers they came out to the Southern

376
00:15:52,440 --> 00:15:49,390
California to be movie stars they came

377
00:15:54,330 --> 00:15:52,450
out like The Grapes of Wrath to eat food

378
00:15:56,760 --> 00:15:54,340
because they were starving in the Dust

379
00:15:58,440 --> 00:15:56,770
Bowl people were seeking something when

380
00:16:01,230 --> 00:15:58,450
they headed west and they were also

381
00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:01,240
speaking and they're seeking nourishment

382
00:16:06,650 --> 00:16:04,330
of the soul right as well and these are

383
00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:06,660
the the people who leave their towns a

384
00:16:12,330 --> 00:16:09,810
lot of times are more adventurous and

385
00:16:15,750 --> 00:16:12,340
they were looking for something new and

386
00:16:17,460 --> 00:16:15,760
it was a fresh place George Van Tassel

387
00:16:20,670 --> 00:16:17,470
came from the Midwest as did a lot of

388
00:16:23,700 --> 00:16:20,680
people out here in SoCal and they wanted

389
00:16:26,430 --> 00:16:23,710
new forms of spirituality as well

390
00:16:29,010 --> 00:16:26,440
so for the very beginning there was all

391
00:16:31,620 --> 00:16:29,020
kinds of wild stuff operating in these

392
00:16:34,020 --> 00:16:31,630
here hills of Los Angeles and the

393
00:16:35,610 --> 00:16:34,030
environs theosophy which was it of

394
00:16:39,560 --> 00:16:35,620
course just in LA

395
00:16:42,870 --> 00:16:39,570
there was simple McPherson she had a

396
00:16:44,670 --> 00:16:42,880
huge church that was here in Echo Park

397
00:16:47,100 --> 00:16:44,680
if the church is still there actually a

398
00:16:49,710 --> 00:16:47,110
me simple McPherson and kind of like a

399
00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:49,720
you had a you know as you got I got on

400
00:16:53,460 --> 00:16:52,450
you had Jean Scott in the 60s and 70s

401
00:16:56,910 --> 00:16:53,470
and 80s

402
00:16:59,640 --> 00:16:56,920
Reverend Jean Scott's classic and I just

403
00:17:03,090 --> 00:16:59,650
love that aspect of California as people

404
00:17:07,470 --> 00:17:03,100
seeking once the atomic bomb was dropped

405
00:17:10,290 --> 00:17:07,480
in tested in a in New Mexico and then

406
00:17:13,740 --> 00:17:10,300
dropped in a Japan everything changed

407
00:17:16,290 --> 00:17:13,750
and people like George Van Tassel felt

408
00:17:19,230 --> 00:17:16,300
an awakening so George came from Ohio

409
00:17:22,620 --> 00:17:19,240
and he was loved airplanes I don't know

410
00:17:24,600 --> 00:17:22,630
if this is how he got into airplanes I

411
00:17:26,220 --> 00:17:24,610
do I should find out I would be the

412
00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:26,230
person to find out I do know that a lot

413
00:17:31,590 --> 00:17:29,170
of people in the Midwest or people with

414
00:17:33,750 --> 00:17:31,600
farms you can operate a plane at any age

415
00:17:35,760 --> 00:17:33,760
and it's still true I think my friend's

416
00:17:38,040 --> 00:17:35,770
son started flying when he's like 14 or

417
00:17:40,080 --> 00:17:38,050
something because because you're dusting

418
00:17:43,110 --> 00:17:40,090
crops you know for whatever reason

419
00:17:47,130 --> 00:17:43,120
George was fascinated by aviation and

420
00:17:50,280 --> 00:17:47,140
moved left Ohio moved out to may have

421
00:17:52,500 --> 00:17:50,290
studied some Aeronautics stuff it's

422
00:17:54,180 --> 00:17:52,510
clays whole story is slightly clouded in

423
00:17:58,080 --> 00:17:54,190
mystery which is really as a trip they

424
00:18:00,300 --> 00:17:58,090
learned a lot about airplanes came out

425
00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:00,310
to California the War World War two was

426
00:18:05,850 --> 00:18:03,730
on and they needed people to work making

427
00:18:08,850 --> 00:18:05,860
airplanes and George was up for it and

428
00:18:11,940 --> 00:18:08,860
he worked at Lockheed and use and a few

429
00:18:14,130 --> 00:18:11,950
other facilities and as the story legend

430
00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:14,140
goes he became friends with Howard

431
00:18:19,350 --> 00:18:16,210
Hughes and his personal flight inspector

432
00:18:22,080 --> 00:18:19,360
and in 1947 as it was all shutting down

433
00:18:24,480 --> 00:18:22,090
he moved out to the desert and some

434
00:18:26,760 --> 00:18:24,490
would say he moved out just to get out

435
00:18:29,100 --> 00:18:26,770
of the rat race I think he even said

436
00:18:32,190 --> 00:18:29,110
that I mean he certainly was one of the

437
00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:32,200
first counterculture people of the new

438
00:18:36,140 --> 00:18:34,450
age I would say and then other people

439
00:18:38,900 --> 00:18:36,150
would say

440
00:18:41,300 --> 00:18:38,910
George actually was going out to the dry

441
00:18:43,340 --> 00:18:41,310
Harper dry lake which was a test

442
00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:43,350
facility a secret test facility that

443
00:18:50,420 --> 00:18:46,610
Howard Hughes had so either way in early

444
00:18:53,900 --> 00:18:50,430
1950s when August night full moon George

445
00:18:58,130 --> 00:18:53,910
looks up and he under a butter yellow

446
00:18:59,660 --> 00:18:58,140
light he hears a voice booming actually

447
00:19:02,000 --> 00:18:59,670
voices that's how it comes to him and

448
00:19:04,280 --> 00:19:02,010
says my name is Saul ganda and I would

449
00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:04,290
be pleased to show you my craft and

450
00:19:10,910 --> 00:19:08,490
that's how his adventure began in

451
00:19:12,530 --> 00:19:10,920
commute and direct communication like

452
00:19:16,100 --> 00:19:12,540
personal communication according to

453
00:19:18,350 --> 00:19:16,110
George with beings from another world

454
00:19:20,510 --> 00:19:18,360
he had already been channeling he had

455
00:19:23,240 --> 00:19:20,520
already been living out there for a year

456
00:19:25,730 --> 00:19:23,250
and and had been singing spirituals with

457
00:19:29,390 --> 00:19:25,740
his family they moved underneath this

458
00:19:33,410 --> 00:19:29,400
giant rock with the name of giant rock

459
00:19:35,030 --> 00:19:33,420
and they they were seeing spirituals and

460
00:19:37,540 --> 00:19:35,040
invite people over pretty soon these

461
00:19:39,740 --> 00:19:37,550
spirituals were morphing into

462
00:19:41,960 --> 00:19:39,750
channelings and George was getting

463
00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:41,970
messages and one of the messages was

464
00:19:51,050 --> 00:19:45,210
that they were gonna give us a buzz over

465
00:19:53,630 --> 00:19:51,060
our capital 9:52 you know the Washington

466
00:19:56,090 --> 00:19:53,640
flap absolutely yep where the you know

467
00:19:57,650 --> 00:19:56,100
the Air Force and Pentagon I believe it

468
00:20:00,530 --> 00:19:57,660
was even had to get involved be like

469
00:20:02,690 --> 00:20:00,540
everyone comes but yeah they sent jets

470
00:20:03,500 --> 00:20:02,700
up even to try to accept the objects

471
00:20:07,250 --> 00:20:03,510
crazy

472
00:20:09,830 --> 00:20:07,260
so in Washington DC I some unidentified

473
00:20:12,250 --> 00:20:09,840
objects flew right over the Capitol

474
00:20:16,370 --> 00:20:12,260
really really near the White House and

475
00:20:18,830 --> 00:20:16,380
George had according to George sent a

476
00:20:20,690 --> 00:20:18,840
registered letter to various officials

477
00:20:23,150 --> 00:20:20,700
in the US government a few months

478
00:20:25,250 --> 00:20:23,160
beforehand so they had told them that

479
00:20:27,620 --> 00:20:25,260
they were they were gonna try to get our

480
00:20:29,780 --> 00:20:27,630
attention that way what I would give to

481
00:20:32,450 --> 00:20:29,790
have seen those letters postmarked I

482
00:20:35,420 --> 00:20:32,460
know I know that would be something to

483
00:20:38,570 --> 00:20:35,430
find you know like the poem has never

484
00:20:41,210 --> 00:20:38,580
finished only abandoned I heard that

485
00:20:43,460 --> 00:20:41,220
expression yeah yeah I love it it fits

486
00:20:45,860 --> 00:20:43,470
perfectly right now because I'm like oh

487
00:20:48,230 --> 00:20:45,870
yeah I could I'd love to see those

488
00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:48,240
letters and I did not find them we did a

489
00:20:52,270 --> 00:20:49,730
lot of research okay

490
00:20:54,550 --> 00:20:52,280
so he gets he's channeling he gets this

491
00:20:57,100 --> 00:20:54,560
message you know i we don't want to give

492
00:20:59,350 --> 00:20:57,110
away too much of that but the biggest

493
00:21:03,670 --> 00:20:59,360
outcome from these messages were just to

494
00:21:05,560 --> 00:21:03,680
build this machine so I'd love maybe if

495
00:21:07,720 --> 00:21:05,570
you could sort of describe what this

496
00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:07,730
machine was to us Jonathan if you don't

497
00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:08,210
mind

498
00:21:14,140 --> 00:21:11,330
so the yeah the Integra Tron was a

499
00:21:16,870 --> 00:21:14,150
building design for basic research into

500
00:21:18,250 --> 00:21:16,880
life extension is how George termed it

501
00:21:20,290 --> 00:21:18,260
but it was much more than that

502
00:21:22,630 --> 00:21:20,300
so I'm one of the reviewers of the film

503
00:21:24,670 --> 00:21:22,640
called it the Swiss Army knife of like

504
00:21:26,830 --> 00:21:24,680
of the New Age you know of all the

505
00:21:29,110 --> 00:21:26,840
things that people wanted one of which

506
00:21:32,140 --> 00:21:29,120
was free energy what this was was a

507
00:21:34,950 --> 00:21:32,150
domed machine that was supposed to spin

508
00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:34,960
around and create electromagnetic waves

509
00:21:42,760 --> 00:21:38,090
multiple wave oscillations that would

510
00:21:44,830 --> 00:21:42,770
then use George krills idea criolla

511
00:21:48,190 --> 00:21:44,840
having been the first doctor to have

512
00:21:51,490 --> 00:21:48,200
done blood transfusion and creoles idea

513
00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:51,500
that the cells are like little batteries

514
00:21:58,090 --> 00:21:53,570
and that they need to be recharged

515
00:22:00,940 --> 00:21:58,100
so zapping the cells with electricity to

516
00:22:04,090 --> 00:22:00,950
rejuvenate people and the reason why it

517
00:22:07,570 --> 00:22:04,100
wasn't just vanity George's explanation

518
00:22:11,380 --> 00:22:07,580
of this was that you get wisdom and just

519
00:22:14,590 --> 00:22:11,390
as you start moving towards being giving

520
00:22:18,610 --> 00:22:14,600
some wisdom you die so the extent the

521
00:22:22,090 --> 00:22:18,620
intent was to bring wisdom to the people

522
00:22:24,310 --> 00:22:22,100
and extend life at the same time the

523
00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:24,320
dome worked on a number of different

524
00:22:27,790 --> 00:22:26,570
principles although it never was turned

525
00:22:31,390 --> 00:22:27,800
on as as you know

526
00:22:34,420 --> 00:22:31,400
and those include Tesla's benefits of

527
00:22:36,550 --> 00:22:34,430
negative ionization and George Lakoff

528
00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:36,560
skis multiple wave oscillations that we

529
00:22:43,150 --> 00:22:39,410
were talking about so it is a wild and

530
00:22:44,950 --> 00:22:43,160
crazy and audacious idea and one of the

531
00:22:46,450 --> 00:22:44,960
things as I talk about the film I'd

532
00:22:48,420 --> 00:22:46,460
really love to do a conference where we

533
00:22:50,700 --> 00:22:48,430
get together the more esoteric

534
00:22:52,390 --> 00:22:50,710
scientists with the more hardcore

535
00:22:54,010 --> 00:22:52,400
scientists one of the things I love

536
00:22:55,540 --> 00:22:54,020
visually about George by the way

537
00:22:57,520 --> 00:22:55,550
speaking of just hardcore science this

538
00:23:00,070 --> 00:22:57,530
is how like middle-american kind of

539
00:23:02,710 --> 00:23:00,080
square-jawed he is he does that like

540
00:23:03,039 --> 00:23:02,720
hippy dippy exactly yeah you visit him

541
00:23:05,109 --> 00:23:03,049
in your

542
00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:05,119
uh he could work on my car and he did

543
00:23:09,669 --> 00:23:07,369
work on cars and that's another story

544
00:23:12,460 --> 00:23:09,679
that's how he found out about about the

545
00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:12,470
area at first interesting yeah he worked

546
00:23:15,940 --> 00:23:14,330
George well since you said that George

547
00:23:18,100 --> 00:23:15,950
worked with his uncle it was a

548
00:23:21,220 --> 00:23:18,110
depression they were fixing cars out in

549
00:23:24,669 --> 00:23:21,230
Santa Monica and this German miner comes

550
00:23:26,830 --> 00:23:24,679
along or German German American again

551
00:23:29,229 --> 00:23:26,840
another Rashomon there's a hole Rashomon

552
00:23:31,389 --> 00:23:29,239
aspect of the film Rashomon being the

553
00:23:33,519 --> 00:23:31,399
Japanese film where there's multiple

554
00:23:36,190 --> 00:23:33,529
stories of the same event for different

555
00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:36,200
perspectives so this miner his car broke

556
00:23:40,659 --> 00:23:38,690
down he needed some bucks to get the car

557
00:23:42,460 --> 00:23:40,669
fixed and money they get his mind going

558
00:23:44,529 --> 00:23:42,470
out in the desert and he ran into George

559
00:23:44,950 --> 00:23:44,539
and his uncle and they staked him some

560
00:23:46,779 --> 00:23:44,960
money

561
00:23:50,769 --> 00:23:46,789
they fixed his car and they stayed in

562
00:23:53,049 --> 00:23:50,779
touch and then one day the sheriff of a

563
00:23:55,180 --> 00:23:53,059
nearby County to where he was mining

564
00:23:57,609 --> 00:23:55,190
which was under this giant rock right

565
00:24:00,099 --> 00:23:57,619
and they came by to see what was going

566
00:24:02,259 --> 00:24:00,109
on after all this guy was a German with

567
00:24:04,690 --> 00:24:02,269
shortwave radios and dynamite and

568
00:24:06,789 --> 00:24:04,700
aircrafts living in the middle of the

569
00:24:09,669 --> 00:24:06,799
desert during World War two and they

570
00:24:11,109 --> 00:24:09,679
came and there's multiple versions of

571
00:24:13,599 --> 00:24:11,119
the story which you'll have to see the

572
00:24:17,409 --> 00:24:13,609
film I guess to find out but um turns

573
00:24:20,169 --> 00:24:17,419
out that um he dies in an explosion

574
00:24:23,739 --> 00:24:20,179
there at the rock at George and his

575
00:24:25,930 --> 00:24:23,749
family circling back come there a number

576
00:24:29,259 --> 00:24:25,940
of years later and scrub the walls of

577
00:24:30,909 --> 00:24:29,269
the blood and start their venture which

578
00:24:32,349 --> 00:24:30,919
they did not know what's going to turn

579
00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:32,359
they had started living under the rock

580
00:24:37,539 --> 00:24:34,730
and singing the spirituals yeah the rest

581
00:24:40,690 --> 00:24:37,549
is sort of history so out of all this

582
00:24:42,369 --> 00:24:40,700
Jonathan he creates these conventions

583
00:24:44,049 --> 00:24:42,379
which was another big part of your film

584
00:24:46,539 --> 00:24:44,059
this this counterculture that were

585
00:24:48,159 --> 00:24:46,549
coming out to the deserts to sort of

586
00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:48,169
support the integrity on which was

587
00:24:53,259 --> 00:24:50,570
really interesting idea and then the

588
00:24:54,940 --> 00:24:53,269
intelligence agencies kind of got

589
00:24:56,710 --> 00:24:54,950
involved for this can you kinda maybe

590
00:24:58,899 --> 00:24:56,720
briefly run us through this whole string

591
00:25:01,180 --> 00:24:58,909
of events well first of all it's easy to

592
00:25:05,409 --> 00:25:01,190
forget that he invited the intelligence

593
00:25:07,149 --> 00:25:05,419
agencies in well the FBI is the one that

594
00:25:10,239 --> 00:25:07,159
he contacted but he contacted other

595
00:25:11,919 --> 00:25:10,249
people and the in the military like it

596
00:25:13,690 --> 00:25:11,929
what is it called white I think it's

597
00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:13,700
called white Patterson and so on and um

598
00:25:18,410 --> 00:25:16,410
oh right Patterson right now

599
00:25:21,410 --> 00:25:18,420
exactly and so he invited a lot of

600
00:25:24,260 --> 00:25:21,420
people because he got this message so he

601
00:25:27,020 --> 00:25:24,270
was on their radar by almost by like he

602
00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:27,030
called them in however they were very

603
00:25:34,010 --> 00:25:30,690
interested in George and again multiple

604
00:25:36,380 --> 00:25:34,020
potential reasons why one he was

605
00:25:39,020 --> 00:25:36,390
gathering after he he got the message

606
00:25:40,100 --> 00:25:39,030
what what happened when so god this is

607
00:25:42,470 --> 00:25:40,110
you're getting a little bit of a

608
00:25:45,770 --> 00:25:42,480
moderate art version of the story right

609
00:25:47,780 --> 00:25:45,780
but so Lagonda came down and he said I

610
00:25:51,350 --> 00:25:47,790
would be pleased to show you our craft

611
00:25:54,140 --> 00:25:51,360
and then they gifted him or direct

612
00:25:54,650 --> 00:25:54,150
downloaded it I don't know how else to

613
00:25:57,290 --> 00:25:54,660
put it

614
00:26:00,620 --> 00:25:57,300
the plans or the basic inspiration for

615
00:26:03,890 --> 00:26:00,630
this integratron this machine and that

616
00:26:06,890 --> 00:26:03,900
needed funding because if you're gonna

617
00:26:09,980 --> 00:26:06,900
combine extraterrestrial technology with

618
00:26:12,170 --> 00:26:09,990
Tesla's negative ionization with George

619
00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:12,180
creoles charging of the cells as

620
00:26:16,070 --> 00:26:14,250
batteries with George Lakoff skis

621
00:26:16,850 --> 00:26:16,080
multiple way of oscillation you better

622
00:26:18,860 --> 00:26:16,860
have some bucks

623
00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:18,870
so he started taking these conventions

624
00:26:23,150 --> 00:26:20,730
and he invited out all the contactees

625
00:26:25,910 --> 00:26:23,160
you know the classic and George Willis

626
00:26:27,500 --> 00:26:25,920
one of the classic 1950s contactees and

627
00:26:31,130 --> 00:26:27,510
he invited them to the desert to speak

628
00:26:34,010 --> 00:26:31,140
and barbecue you know and and all the

629
00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:34,020
fans right this was there was no coast

630
00:26:38,750 --> 00:26:35,730
to coast there was no somewhere on the

631
00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:38,760
skies back then there was just you and

632
00:26:42,290 --> 00:26:40,650
your little town and you may have had an

633
00:26:43,610 --> 00:26:42,300
experience and you felt worried about it

634
00:26:45,710 --> 00:26:43,620
and all of a sudden you read in a

635
00:26:47,900 --> 00:26:45,720
magazine and at one point particularly

636
00:26:49,460 --> 00:26:47,910
Life magazine did a piece where they

637
00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:49,470
were kind of mocking it which happens a

638
00:26:54,500 --> 00:26:51,690
lot with media for various reasons so we

639
00:26:55,730 --> 00:26:54,510
can go into but that just backfired and

640
00:26:57,530 --> 00:26:55,740
people came out to the desert and

641
00:26:59,600 --> 00:26:57,540
thousands of people came and it was a

642
00:27:02,660 --> 00:26:59,610
first Burning Man in my opinion yeah a

643
00:27:04,790 --> 00:27:02,670
very early predecessor for sure and of

644
00:27:06,890 --> 00:27:04,800
concern to the government one they could

645
00:27:08,420 --> 00:27:06,900
be communist they're talking about free

646
00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:08,430
love and they're hanging out in the

647
00:27:13,580 --> 00:27:11,010
desert and they're trading ideas that if

648
00:27:15,290 --> 00:27:13,590
you really go to the roots of some of

649
00:27:17,150 --> 00:27:15,300
the original settlers of this country

650
00:27:18,620 --> 00:27:17,160
we're part of their roots communitary

651
00:27:22,550 --> 00:27:18,630
you know to be communitarian to help

652
00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:22,560
people you right but uh they saw it as a

653
00:27:26,300 --> 00:27:23,610
potential threat and possibly

654
00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:26,310
soviet-backed of the government on the

655
00:27:30,290 --> 00:27:28,290
one hand on the other hand he was

656
00:27:30,710 --> 00:27:30,300
mucking around with technology that

657
00:27:34,820 --> 00:27:30,720
maybe

658
00:27:39,620 --> 00:27:34,830
just gonna blow up the whole grid of the

659
00:27:41,570 --> 00:27:39,630
Southern Cal system you know there's two

660
00:27:43,340 --> 00:27:41,580
sides to this whole world right there's

661
00:27:48,020 --> 00:27:43,350
the excitement and you feel it and you

662
00:27:50,299 --> 00:27:48,030
see it with Formica and and cars and

663
00:27:53,690 --> 00:27:50,309
shopping centers for better or worse and

664
00:27:55,460 --> 00:27:53,700
and all the inventions and television

665
00:27:58,070 --> 00:27:55,470
you know we like things that we just

666
00:27:59,750 --> 00:27:58,080
take for granted these were new and

667
00:28:02,890 --> 00:27:59,760
bright and then on the other side was

668
00:28:06,289 --> 00:28:02,900
the fear of the bomb and these two

669
00:28:09,350 --> 00:28:06,299
polarities play into this whole story

670
00:28:11,690 --> 00:28:09,360
and every beat absolutely I mean you

671
00:28:13,730 --> 00:28:11,700
sort of have like the foreshadowing of

672
00:28:15,649 --> 00:28:13,740
the Cold War creeping in I guess is

673
00:28:18,169 --> 00:28:15,659
another good way to look at it like what

674
00:28:20,210 --> 00:28:18,179
if these contactees what if like the

675
00:28:22,190 --> 00:28:20,220
message they were given was a Trojan

676
00:28:23,450 --> 00:28:22,200
horse of sorts you know build this

677
00:28:23,870 --> 00:28:23,460
device that's going to blow up the

678
00:28:27,740 --> 00:28:23,880
planet

679
00:28:29,419 --> 00:28:27,750
hey I mean a lot of this to me

680
00:28:31,270 --> 00:28:29,429
stems you look at like Operation

681
00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:31,280
Paperclip the bringing of the Nazi

682
00:28:36,260 --> 00:28:34,650
rocket scientists to the u.s. because it

683
00:28:38,659 --> 00:28:36,270
was like well are they gonna go to the

684
00:28:42,590 --> 00:28:38,669
Soviet empire they're gonna go to the US

685
00:28:45,350 --> 00:28:42,600
Empire so they were successful in

686
00:28:47,149 --> 00:28:45,360
bringing these folks here I think that

687
00:28:49,039 --> 00:28:47,159
to me is the start of chloride let's see

688
00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:49,049
1947 yeah right after World War two so

689
00:28:53,029 --> 00:28:51,690
this was really smack in the Cold War

690
00:28:56,149 --> 00:28:53,039
yet

691
00:28:58,669 --> 00:28:56,159
there are I don't know if there's

692
00:29:01,990 --> 00:28:58,679
there's been a lot of innuendo including

693
00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:02,000
freaky book about was at area 51 that

694
00:29:06,500 --> 00:29:05,010
that there was that the craft that

695
00:29:10,130 --> 00:29:06,510
landed at Roswell was some kind of

696
00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:10,140
Soviet disinfo program which Jacobson

697
00:29:14,570 --> 00:29:12,330
yep yeah I think that's a bunch of hooey

698
00:29:18,020 --> 00:29:14,580
but you know everybody's entitled I mean

699
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:18,030
she got that from a tale spun to her by

700
00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:22,890
some old you know tech a science guy you

701
00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:24,210
know I don't know if she has any proof

702
00:29:29,779 --> 00:29:26,970
for that but I wouldn't be surprised if

703
00:29:32,539 --> 00:29:29,789
there was some support of of UFO stuff

704
00:29:34,460 --> 00:29:32,549
from the Soviets so absolutely yeah I

705
00:29:36,860 --> 00:29:34,470
mean again like these might just be

706
00:29:39,350 --> 00:29:36,870
stories but you always hope there's even

707
00:29:41,540 --> 00:29:39,360
a shred of fact to some of them for

708
00:29:44,330 --> 00:29:41,550
better or worse I can't

709
00:29:47,330 --> 00:29:44,340
and I haven't found any actual proof

710
00:29:49,660 --> 00:29:47,340
that there was Soviet backing of that I

711
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:49,670
think there's a lot more proof of Soviet

712
00:29:54,830 --> 00:29:52,650
interference now and Facebook and all

713
00:29:58,070 --> 00:29:54,840
that very good point yeah bringing it to

714
00:29:58,610 --> 00:29:58,080
present Davis has proof that I haven't

715
00:30:02,180 --> 00:29:58,620
found it

716
00:30:04,100 --> 00:30:02,190
there is one journalist Nick what is his

717
00:30:05,810 --> 00:30:04,110
name Nick and he you know talking about

718
00:30:08,510 --> 00:30:05,820
he's kind of a punk rocker he's great Oh

719
00:30:10,790 --> 00:30:08,520
Nick Redfern yes Nick Redfern and Nick

720
00:30:12,470 --> 00:30:10,800
Redfern wrote know Nick Redfern who I

721
00:30:15,190 --> 00:30:12,480
met at contact in the desert where we

722
00:30:19,730 --> 00:30:15,200
tested the film this wonderful kind of

723
00:30:21,980 --> 00:30:19,740
relative son of of George's activities I

724
00:30:24,170 --> 00:30:21,990
met Nick and he did a book where he

725
00:30:28,460 --> 00:30:24,180
talks about all the contactees and the

726
00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:28,470
FBI and and George Van Tassel so it's

727
00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:32,850
been a wild ride in the UFO communities

728
00:30:39,250 --> 00:30:35,490
what is going on and there's so much dis

729
00:30:41,750 --> 00:30:39,260
info from the very beginning including

730
00:30:45,260 --> 00:30:41,760
i-vt know about the national of that

731
00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:45,270
weapon Nash's like I was just in Joshua

732
00:30:49,580 --> 00:30:48,090
Tree National Enquirer and the Weekly

733
00:30:52,550 --> 00:30:49,590
World News do you know how they were

734
00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:52,560
started no I mean I remember buying it

735
00:30:56,540 --> 00:30:54,810
every you know every week or whatnot

736
00:30:58,340 --> 00:30:56,550
when it came out with a kid but no I

737
00:31:00,950 --> 00:30:58,350
don't know the how it all sort of

738
00:31:01,910 --> 00:31:00,960
started no yeah so these are papers they

739
00:31:03,950 --> 00:31:01,920
were like early

740
00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:03,960
I don't know well one one was really out

741
00:31:07,970 --> 00:31:05,730
there right with weekly world news The

742
00:31:09,710 --> 00:31:07,980
Enquirer had some out there stuff to the

743
00:31:12,620 --> 00:31:09,720
original founders of the National

744
00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:12,630
Enquirer or a family that was connected

745
00:31:21,430 --> 00:31:18,690
to the Mafia you could say and were paid

746
00:31:24,650 --> 00:31:21,440
by the government as disinformation

747
00:31:27,740 --> 00:31:24,660
conduits and actually things change

748
00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:27,750
there didn't we see that recently with

749
00:31:33,710 --> 00:31:32,010
Trump and the and his uh his ladies yeah

750
00:31:36,710 --> 00:31:33,720
yeah good point it I mean we have

751
00:31:39,860 --> 00:31:36,720
operation Mockingbird as well with CIA

752
00:31:43,010 --> 00:31:39,870
they actually bought out journalists

753
00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:43,020
back in the 50s through the 70s to

754
00:31:47,060 --> 00:31:45,810
spread propaganda I mean so I mean these

755
00:31:48,530 --> 00:31:47,070
things have been going on for a while

756
00:31:51,590 --> 00:31:48,540
but I didn't know that about The

757
00:31:54,230 --> 00:31:51,600
Enquirer and weekly world news bad boy

758
00:31:55,350 --> 00:31:54,240
bad boy was one of my favorites for sure

759
00:31:58,289 --> 00:31:55,360
Oh bad boy

760
00:32:00,900 --> 00:31:58,299
okay you know this stuff was so from so

761
00:32:03,090 --> 00:32:00,910
long from so so far into the past that

762
00:32:08,549 --> 00:32:03,100
it's you know it was more like the OSS

763
00:32:10,590 --> 00:32:08,559
the original CIA group the was it Office

764
00:32:13,710 --> 00:32:10,600
of Special Services Strategic Services

765
00:32:17,340 --> 00:32:13,720
yeah it strategic yeah so you know it's

766
00:32:20,430 --> 00:32:17,350
a great way of controlling information

767
00:32:23,610 --> 00:32:20,440
is to make fun of it so a lot of the

768
00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:23,620
stuff that came out in the Weekly World

769
00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:26,290
News - damage control that way about UFO

770
00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:27,970
stuff now people may have just been

771
00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:30,850
seeing top-secret stuff you know we have

772
00:32:33,990 --> 00:32:32,530
Eric Burdon the great rock-and-roller

773
00:32:36,330 --> 00:32:34,000
from the animals in the film and he's

774
00:32:37,919 --> 00:32:36,340
like look you Americans he think here's

775
00:32:40,289 --> 00:32:37,929
of us didn't know everything right

776
00:32:42,150 --> 00:32:40,299
that's somehow part of our it really is

777
00:32:44,310 --> 00:32:42,160
a blessing to be born in a place like

778
00:32:45,780 --> 00:32:44,320
this we see what's going on on the

779
00:32:48,090 --> 00:32:45,790
around the world unfortunately what's

780
00:32:51,299 --> 00:32:48,100
going around on around the world has a

781
00:32:56,159 --> 00:32:51,309
lot of culpability from this country but

782
00:32:58,500 --> 00:32:56,169
when when you see that somehow we have

783
00:33:00,090 --> 00:32:58,510
this freedom that we've been granted and

784
00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:00,100
hopefully we will continue to exercise

785
00:33:04,020 --> 00:33:02,410
it where we think we should know

786
00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:04,030
everything but I think Eric Greg might

787
00:33:06,630 --> 00:33:05,650
be right maybe there's some stuff you're

788
00:33:09,530 --> 00:33:06,640
not supposed to know

789
00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:09,540
yeah I mean there's secrets for amazing

790
00:33:14,700 --> 00:33:12,010
so part of me is a very patriotic

791
00:33:17,610 --> 00:33:14,710
American and part of that has to do with

792
00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:17,620
also being able to exercise our rights

793
00:33:21,930 --> 00:33:20,410
as citizens in a free conversation but

794
00:33:24,590 --> 00:33:21,940
also understanding there's some stuff

795
00:33:28,950 --> 00:33:24,600
like there's stuff that uh that our

796
00:33:30,110 --> 00:33:28,960
people in in a secret whatever what do

797
00:33:32,430 --> 00:33:30,120
you what do you want to call it like

798
00:33:34,830 --> 00:33:32,440
protective services whatever they've

799
00:33:37,950 --> 00:33:34,840
warded plots that we'll never know about

800
00:33:40,710 --> 00:33:37,960
you know yeah well I mean sort of coming

801
00:33:42,750 --> 00:33:40,720
back to to your whole narrative in this

802
00:33:45,390 --> 00:33:42,760
one you go into great great detail about

803
00:33:48,060 --> 00:33:45,400
Van Tassel's plans with the integra Tron

804
00:33:49,350 --> 00:33:48,070
and and then just you know all systems

805
00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:49,360
are ready to go you know we got the

806
00:33:54,570 --> 00:33:52,210
funding you got it up and ready to run

807
00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:54,580
and then something happens that sort of

808
00:33:58,740 --> 00:33:56,410
brings everything to a screeching halt

809
00:34:00,270 --> 00:33:58,750
so could you maybe give us this this

810
00:34:04,110 --> 00:34:00,280
little part of the story as well

811
00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:04,120
George had an untimely death he well it

812
00:34:07,919 --> 00:34:06,370
depends how you look at it you know I'll

813
00:34:09,030 --> 00:34:07,929
go with they'll print the legends as

814
00:34:11,100 --> 00:34:09,040
they say it was

815
00:34:12,900 --> 00:34:11,110
just about to turn on the dough it had

816
00:34:15,540 --> 00:34:12,910
been a lot of years and he was on his

817
00:34:18,630 --> 00:34:15,550
way to an interview and he mysteriously

818
00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:18,640
and suddenly died that's one version of

819
00:34:23,419 --> 00:34:21,010
the story in other words a lot of people

820
00:34:27,390 --> 00:34:23,429
would say and I'm I'm not gonna

821
00:34:29,970 --> 00:34:27,400
vociferous Li deny their us or tations

822
00:34:32,669 --> 00:34:29,980
they would say that George was stopped

823
00:34:35,159 --> 00:34:32,679
by elements of the government I'm not

824
00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:35,169
sure what it is but this whole populist

825
00:34:40,620 --> 00:34:37,450
conspiracy thing has been a big part in

826
00:34:43,740 --> 00:34:40,630
the history of this country as well you

827
00:34:46,530 --> 00:34:43,750
know like like people getting all crazy

828
00:34:48,990 --> 00:34:46,540
about Illuminati and stuff it's true

829
00:34:52,500 --> 00:34:49,000
that there are you know cabal's of

830
00:34:55,260 --> 00:34:52,510
certain types but uh I don't know if

831
00:34:57,990 --> 00:34:55,270
they were out to kill George

832
00:35:00,240 --> 00:34:58,000
it's a beautiful legend it's possible

833
00:35:03,210 --> 00:35:00,250
you know circling back to our our

834
00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:03,220
history of California part Ryan you know

835
00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:06,370
all these alienated communities and you

836
00:35:11,610 --> 00:35:09,010
know little towns connected by dusty

837
00:35:14,010 --> 00:35:11,620
roads and this hardscrabble life you

838
00:35:16,110 --> 00:35:14,020
know it wasn't what people you know yeah

839
00:35:17,850 --> 00:35:16,120
there are oranges and olives and stuff

840
00:35:20,460 --> 00:35:17,860
and it had a Mediterranean aspect to it

841
00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:20,470
definitely but really a lot of fast food

842
00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:23,050
was going on the origins of the great

843
00:35:29,370 --> 00:35:27,330
and terrible McDonald's and Ray Kroc

844
00:35:33,900 --> 00:35:29,380
depending on the day that's why I feel

845
00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:33,910
great so some people say George died

846
00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:38,410
from eating too much crappy food a long

847
00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:41,530
way from yes murder conspiracy is pretty

848
00:35:45,510 --> 00:35:43,690
yeah I mean I could give you three or

849
00:35:50,700 --> 00:35:45,520
four versions for sure of his death but

850
00:35:53,490 --> 00:35:50,710
he he did die in 1978 and the dome was

851
00:35:55,590 --> 00:35:53,500
never completed and you know various

852
00:35:57,690 --> 00:35:55,600
forces or people rushed in and grabbed

853
00:35:59,610 --> 00:35:57,700
up the stuff in the plans you know right

854
00:36:02,250 --> 00:35:59,620
yeah and that died sort of brings me to

855
00:36:03,780 --> 00:36:02,260
the the three sisters so I mean these

856
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:03,790
are kind of the people who run the

857
00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:06,010
integratron now am i correct you are

858
00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:07,450
correct and it's so funny because you

859
00:36:12,300 --> 00:36:09,970
make these films and you you stitch

860
00:36:13,770 --> 00:36:12,310
together audio and you put together

861
00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:13,780
video and you hope it makes some kind of

862
00:36:19,110 --> 00:36:17,170
sense and I was watching it after I cut

863
00:36:22,559 --> 00:36:19,120
the whole thing you know many many times

864
00:36:24,930 --> 00:36:22,569
and and I realized that

865
00:36:26,490 --> 00:36:24,940
Nancy and Joanne of the crawl the Karl

866
00:36:27,870 --> 00:36:26,500
sisters the third sister is like she's

867
00:36:29,039 --> 00:36:27,880
like the gum oh she's never around

868
00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:29,049
playing for the from the Marx Brothers

869
00:36:35,900 --> 00:36:31,770
and Tron they're the ones that I know

870
00:36:38,309 --> 00:36:35,910
the stewards or owners of the dome and

871
00:36:40,349 --> 00:36:38,319
Joanne says about Nancy yet she's like

872
00:36:42,210 --> 00:36:40,359
yeah she's uh she's brilliant she used

873
00:36:44,849 --> 00:36:42,220
to work at Stanford Research Institute

874
00:36:46,430 --> 00:36:44,859
in intelligence in a bright software

875
00:36:48,720 --> 00:36:46,440
artificial intelligence and that

876
00:36:50,130 --> 00:36:48,730
recently I was like oh my god she worked

877
00:36:52,260 --> 00:36:50,140
at stamp for research and artificial

878
00:36:55,289 --> 00:36:52,270
intelligence I'm sure your listeners are

879
00:36:57,270 --> 00:36:55,299
aware of s RI and its places in both the

880
00:36:58,680 --> 00:36:57,280
wonderful scientific history of this

881
00:37:00,390 --> 00:36:58,690
country the invention of the mouse in

882
00:37:03,030 --> 00:37:00,400
the computer I think it was invented era

883
00:37:05,789 --> 00:37:03,040
that was Xerox as well also in the more

884
00:37:09,329 --> 00:37:05,799
woowoo parapsychology work that was done

885
00:37:11,010 --> 00:37:09,339
there so that I was like wow so that

886
00:37:13,829 --> 00:37:11,020
they owned the dome they bought it from

887
00:37:16,170 --> 00:37:13,839
another owner it went through a series

888
00:37:18,359 --> 00:37:16,180
of owners and went fallow for a while I

889
00:37:21,030 --> 00:37:18,369
just love that it's a spot where people

890
00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:21,040
project their own stuff onto and I think

891
00:37:24,599 --> 00:37:23,170
that the current stewards of the donar

892
00:37:27,510 --> 00:37:24,609
really good about that like they're able

893
00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:27,520
to allow me to engage in my predilection

894
00:37:31,980 --> 00:37:29,890
for the counterculture activities of

895
00:37:34,470 --> 00:37:31,990
California and make a film about it and

896
00:37:36,180 --> 00:37:34,480
they will enable someone else to do

897
00:37:39,180 --> 00:37:36,190
their yoga retreat there you know what I

898
00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:39,190
mean it's like it's this space in this

899
00:37:45,420 --> 00:37:42,010
place that we can project our hopes

900
00:37:47,339 --> 00:37:45,430
fears and desires and and work on too so

901
00:37:50,010 --> 00:37:47,349
it's kind of neat and just in a pure art

902
00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:50,020
level like installation art like someone

903
00:37:56,160 --> 00:37:52,930
like Robert Smithson and other earth

904
00:37:58,799 --> 00:37:56,170
artists and site-specific artists it

905
00:38:00,780 --> 00:37:58,809
really has that if nothing else it's a

906
00:38:02,730 --> 00:38:00,790
beautiful piece of art but I do believe

907
00:38:04,230 --> 00:38:02,740
it's a lot more than that I do too and I

908
00:38:06,089 --> 00:38:04,240
think that's a really good point it's

909
00:38:08,849 --> 00:38:06,099
sort of the lens in which you look at

910
00:38:10,890 --> 00:38:08,859
the integra Tron and and even though the

911
00:38:13,859 --> 00:38:10,900
counterculture that stemmed are on the

912
00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:13,869
time so I mean I guess sort of wrap up

913
00:38:18,390 --> 00:38:16,210
this the story of Van Tassel in the

914
00:38:20,940 --> 00:38:18,400
integrity on Jonathan where do you stand

915
00:38:23,460 --> 00:38:20,950
in terms of what's going on in in Joshua

916
00:38:25,829 --> 00:38:23,470
Tree now in terms of back then and how

917
00:38:28,140 --> 00:38:25,839
it's all sort of changed the contactee

918
00:38:30,120 --> 00:38:28,150
movement was at its peak and Fantasia

919
00:38:31,859 --> 00:38:30,130
was doing his work and you had others

920
00:38:34,319 --> 00:38:31,869
around the world trying to give this

921
00:38:37,949 --> 00:38:34,329
message of you know peace and harmony

922
00:38:40,019 --> 00:38:37,959
all this really good positive stuff yeah

923
00:38:42,660 --> 00:38:40,029
that's right that was the message that

924
00:38:44,339 --> 00:38:42,670
they came down with really you know it's

925
00:38:46,319 --> 00:38:44,349
like you look at the channeling stuff

926
00:38:47,699 --> 00:38:46,329
some of the channelings and it's and all

927
00:38:49,289 --> 00:38:47,709
the story around that it's cool and then

928
00:38:51,779 --> 00:38:49,299
you get to the actual content and it's

929
00:38:55,829 --> 00:38:51,789
always kind of similar benefits in stuff

930
00:38:59,640 --> 00:38:55,839
in this case peace love and harmony and

931
00:39:02,189 --> 00:38:59,650
and and especially or warning about the

932
00:39:03,870 --> 00:39:02,199
hydrogen bomb over the other bomb over

933
00:39:07,499 --> 00:39:03,880
the other atomic bombs that that was

934
00:39:10,679 --> 00:39:07,509
going to be a real issue so listen as

935
00:39:13,319 --> 00:39:10,689
the preeminent historian of the state of

936
00:39:15,559 --> 00:39:13,329
California says in the film the desert

937
00:39:19,349 --> 00:39:15,569
is always attracted you know mystic

938
00:39:22,229 --> 00:39:19,359
visions starting with the Bible and

939
00:39:24,870 --> 00:39:22,239
before right so this is no exception

940
00:39:28,130 --> 00:39:24,880
and I guess back van it was pretty empty

941
00:39:30,779 --> 00:39:28,140
and there were the original Native

942
00:39:33,150 --> 00:39:30,789
American people who were there who had

943
00:39:35,009 --> 00:39:33,160
their own very deep spiritual connection

944
00:39:37,229 --> 00:39:35,019
including a connection to the

945
00:39:38,849 --> 00:39:37,239
extra-terrestrial which is relayed in

946
00:39:41,269 --> 00:39:38,859
the film by the way there is a website

947
00:39:45,870 --> 00:39:41,279
for the film it's calling all Earthlings

948
00:39:48,569 --> 00:39:45,880
movie.com and there's a there is a 70

949
00:39:50,370 --> 00:39:48,579
page paper that was recently printed and

950
00:39:52,169 --> 00:39:50,380
if people sign up for our mailing lists

951
00:39:54,059 --> 00:39:52,179
I'm happy to send them a copy of that

952
00:39:57,120 --> 00:39:54,069
paper it's brilliant it really gets into

953
00:39:58,650 --> 00:39:57,130
every aspect of it but the I don't know

954
00:40:00,049 --> 00:39:58,660
if he gets into this aspect which is in

955
00:40:03,329 --> 00:40:00,059
the film about the Native American

956
00:40:07,679 --> 00:40:03,339
connection to extraterrestrial origin

957
00:40:09,299 --> 00:40:07,689
origin theory of mankind but everybody

958
00:40:12,059 --> 00:40:09,309
who went out there seems to have been on

959
00:40:14,999 --> 00:40:12,069
some kind of spiritual trip or at least

960
00:40:17,039 --> 00:40:15,009
or at least don't tread on me trip right

961
00:40:20,370 --> 00:40:17,049
like his lot a lot of veterans went out

962
00:40:21,419 --> 00:40:20,380
there we have one in our film and a lot

963
00:40:23,339 --> 00:40:21,429
of veterans went out there and we're

964
00:40:25,650 --> 00:40:23,349
given free lands and the jackrabbit

965
00:40:28,589 --> 00:40:25,660
chucks and now it's a wild and crazy

966
00:40:30,329 --> 00:40:28,599
history it is and I mean again like you

967
00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:30,339
know the areas in Joshua Tree a lot of

968
00:40:34,919 --> 00:40:32,650
them have change you got all the air BnB

969
00:40:37,769 --> 00:40:34,929
ease and the commercialism price I know

970
00:40:40,620 --> 00:40:37,779
I know but I mean your film brings us

971
00:40:42,599 --> 00:40:40,630
back to a better time when this when

972
00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:42,609
they could invite veterans to you know

973
00:40:45,940 --> 00:40:44,890
deal with their PTSD or go somewhere

974
00:40:48,370 --> 00:40:45,950
where they're welcome

975
00:40:51,010 --> 00:40:48,380
you know so I mean I'm hoping that's

976
00:40:52,810 --> 00:40:51,020
still the case when it comes to the

977
00:40:55,720 --> 00:40:52,820
Integra Tron and the work with the three

978
00:40:59,050 --> 00:40:55,730
sisters and in all of this swirling

979
00:41:01,150 --> 00:40:59,060
around fantasies original message and

980
00:41:03,550 --> 00:41:01,160
what I find also really interesting is

981
00:41:05,620 --> 00:41:03,560
that you recently in your interviews you

982
00:41:07,930 --> 00:41:05,630
talked about you went to Malibu for a

983
00:41:10,450 --> 00:41:07,940
screening and someone told you that they

984
00:41:11,620 --> 00:41:10,460
they believe there's other integratron

985
00:41:13,750 --> 00:41:11,630
that have been built throughout the

986
00:41:16,210 --> 00:41:13,760
world now I know there's nothing to sort

987
00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:16,220
of prove this but I found that pretty

988
00:41:19,690 --> 00:41:17,450
interesting as well

989
00:41:22,450 --> 00:41:19,700
well the dome itself is built on the

990
00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:22,460
right on the border of one of the

991
00:41:27,970 --> 00:41:24,170
largest military installations in the

992
00:41:31,960 --> 00:41:27,980
world twenty-nine pumps facility 29

993
00:41:34,690 --> 00:41:31,970
pumps it has a official name but we know

994
00:41:37,329 --> 00:41:34,700
what it is it runs from the town of 29

995
00:41:39,609 --> 00:41:37,339
pounds all the way up towards the top up

996
00:41:42,970 --> 00:41:39,619
to five it's a huge area with you know

997
00:41:44,670 --> 00:41:42,980
photo rocky villages you know and all

998
00:41:46,990 --> 00:41:44,680
kinds of stuff going on up there and

999
00:41:48,849 --> 00:41:47,000
there's always been this connection

1000
00:41:52,510 --> 00:41:48,859
between the military and the integratron

1001
00:41:55,150 --> 00:41:52,520
one ringing more about aggression and

1002
00:41:57,190 --> 00:41:55,160
the other more about the peace and the

1003
00:41:59,950 --> 00:41:57,200
people in Joshua Tree who are the peace

1004
00:42:01,569 --> 00:41:59,960
the peaceful air or spiritual air as the

1005
00:42:03,700 --> 00:42:01,579
Van Tassel I just hang out with this

1006
00:42:06,010 --> 00:42:03,710
weekend you know not officially but you

1007
00:42:08,380 --> 00:42:06,020
know they they are carrying on a lot of

1008
00:42:12,099 --> 00:42:08,390
the same stuff so yeah it is a funny

1009
00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:12,109
thing about capitalism I'm I'm not

1010
00:42:16,059 --> 00:42:13,970
against capitalism I think it's a good

1011
00:42:18,160 --> 00:42:16,069
thing I think a mixed economy is nice

1012
00:42:20,740 --> 00:42:18,170
but it's just out there and somebody was

1013
00:42:22,660 --> 00:42:20,750
saying Oh Clive right so one of the

1014
00:42:24,460 --> 00:42:22,670
musicians in our film and he lives he's

1015
00:42:27,099 --> 00:42:24,470
lived there forever brilliant British

1016
00:42:29,380 --> 00:42:27,109
musician and they're like I can get you

1017
00:42:32,079 --> 00:42:29,390
200 bucks a night for your for your

1018
00:42:35,020 --> 00:42:32,089
Airbnb instead of 75 I'm like hey hold

1019
00:42:37,210 --> 00:42:35,030
on next time I come out my rate to stay

1020
00:42:39,130 --> 00:42:37,220
Joshua Tree is gonna double so it's like

1021
00:42:40,990 --> 00:42:39,140
this weird double edged sword people

1022
00:42:43,120 --> 00:42:41,000
need to make a living and I don't want

1023
00:42:47,140 --> 00:42:43,130
to regulate anything I'm not a regulator

1024
00:42:47,829 --> 00:42:47,150
at the same time you know price gouging

1025
00:42:50,050 --> 00:42:47,839
is hard

1026
00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:50,060
I guess the market will figure it out I

1027
00:42:56,020 --> 00:42:53,450
expected to see a lot more activity but

1028
00:42:57,940 --> 00:42:56,030
it seems pretty much the same

1029
00:42:59,280 --> 00:42:57,950
trippy cool place it's just like the

1030
00:43:01,830 --> 00:42:59,290
rents have gone up

1031
00:43:04,140 --> 00:43:01,840
yeah and that house values it might be

1032
00:43:06,600 --> 00:43:04,150
one of those places - it shakes out the

1033
00:43:09,360 --> 00:43:06,610
people who can't hack it well I mean

1034
00:43:11,490 --> 00:43:09,370
okay so you know aside from this

1035
00:43:15,120 --> 00:43:11,500
Jonathan where do you think we stand

1036
00:43:18,450 --> 00:43:15,130
today as a society 2018 we get like the

1037
00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:18,460
biggest bombshell story of UFO

1038
00:43:22,260 --> 00:43:21,010
disclosure from from the government you

1039
00:43:24,330 --> 00:43:22,270
know the New York Times puts out this

1040
00:43:26,820 --> 00:43:24,340
article the Pentagon has been

1041
00:43:28,770 --> 00:43:26,830
investigating UFOs secretly for like

1042
00:43:30,570 --> 00:43:28,780
eight ten years or something like that

1043
00:43:33,030 --> 00:43:30,580
which are which article are you

1044
00:43:35,550 --> 00:43:33,040
referring to the this was the New York

1045
00:43:37,680 --> 00:43:35,560
Times article came out in December right

1046
00:43:39,480 --> 00:43:37,690
and I think that was through Tom's along

1047
00:43:42,210 --> 00:43:39,490
so long to launch how do you say it

1048
00:43:44,400 --> 00:43:42,220
correct yeah yeah yeah organization yeah

1049
00:43:48,270 --> 00:43:44,410
yeah I mean for a lot of people they're

1050
00:43:49,500 --> 00:43:48,280
like duh we knew that but for the for

1051
00:43:51,930 --> 00:43:49,510
that to be in the New York Times is a

1052
00:43:54,720 --> 00:43:51,940
big step yeah yeah where do you stand on

1053
00:43:56,430 --> 00:43:54,730
you know UFO disclosure you know there's

1054
00:43:58,650 --> 00:43:56,440
this idea that the government is gonna

1055
00:44:03,300 --> 00:43:58,660
tell us what they've known for so long

1056
00:44:06,330 --> 00:44:03,310
or that I never I haven't really thought

1057
00:44:10,230 --> 00:44:06,340
that through I mean I would think that

1058
00:44:12,570 --> 00:44:10,240
people love to gossip and talk so let me

1059
00:44:14,520 --> 00:44:12,580
see it brings up a more not more about

1060
00:44:16,500 --> 00:44:14,530
an interesting question of the whole

1061
00:44:19,050 --> 00:44:16,510
world we're in right now a fake news and

1062
00:44:20,700 --> 00:44:19,060
real news how the heck do we know what's

1063
00:44:23,220 --> 00:44:20,710
real and this is the ultimate subject

1064
00:44:26,220 --> 00:44:23,230
where we don't know one thing that leads

1065
00:44:28,410 --> 00:44:26,230
lends credence to it for me which is

1066
00:44:30,660 --> 00:44:28,420
very intriguing I spoke to this guy

1067
00:44:33,030 --> 00:44:30,670
Robert solace well as I was making the

1068
00:44:34,860 --> 00:44:33,040
film do you know him and his work yes

1069
00:44:38,130 --> 00:44:34,870
the gentleman with the nuclear bases

1070
00:44:39,630 --> 00:44:38,140
right exactly that is you should get him

1071
00:44:43,500 --> 00:44:39,640
on your show because that is a really

1072
00:44:47,100 --> 00:44:43,510
interesting story that that nuclear he

1073
00:44:48,990 --> 00:44:47,110
has a group of people who were military

1074
00:44:53,250 --> 00:44:49,000
officials so many of them high-ranking

1075
00:44:56,280 --> 00:44:53,260
and that they experienced odd shutdowns

1076
00:44:58,860 --> 00:44:56,290
from extraterrestrial forces according

1077
00:45:00,900 --> 00:44:58,870
to the way Salas describes it I don't

1078
00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:00,910
know if he explicitly says yeah I think

1079
00:45:07,950 --> 00:45:04,450
he does and so there is something going

1080
00:45:09,450 --> 00:45:07,960
on I don't know you know it's like it's

1081
00:45:12,270 --> 00:45:09,460
like if you ask me about George Van

1082
00:45:13,059 --> 00:45:12,280
Tassel on Monday I might say oh he's Tom

1083
00:45:15,099 --> 00:45:13,069
Sawyer

1084
00:45:17,019 --> 00:45:15,109
trying to get his fence painted and you

1085
00:45:18,640 --> 00:45:17,029
know live a life in the desert and on

1086
00:45:20,349 --> 00:45:18,650
Wednesday I could say yeah the guy was

1087
00:45:21,909 --> 00:45:20,359
had this brilliant idea that's thirty

1088
00:45:25,150 --> 00:45:21,919
years ahead of his time so that this

1089
00:45:26,409 --> 00:45:25,160
closure issue is interesting we all want

1090
00:45:29,439 --> 00:45:26,419
to have an interesting life of

1091
00:45:30,759 --> 00:45:29,449
significance right so if we said now

1092
00:45:39,669 --> 00:45:30,769
it's all a bunch of hooey that would

1093
00:45:42,999 --> 00:45:39,679
that would suck a cal state wonderful

1094
00:45:44,709 --> 00:45:43,009
school Cal State San Marcos but we all

1095
00:45:47,439 --> 00:45:44,719
want to live lies the significance on

1096
00:45:50,679 --> 00:45:47,449
the one hand and it's possible it's all

1097
00:45:53,109 --> 00:45:50,689
just illusion and on the other hand it

1098
00:45:56,109 --> 00:45:53,119
could be disinformation to keep people

1099
00:45:57,999 --> 00:45:56,119
busy and on the third hand because we're

1100
00:46:00,009 --> 00:45:58,009
aliens we have three hands it's very

1101
00:46:02,109 --> 00:46:00,019
possible that there is a bunch of stuff

1102
00:46:04,209 --> 00:46:02,119
that is hidden I'm sure there are people

1103
00:46:05,799 --> 00:46:04,219
you've had on your show who know a lot

1104
00:46:07,989 --> 00:46:05,809
more about this than I do I'm just a

1105
00:46:10,479 --> 00:46:07,999
film guy I make films about communes

1106
00:46:13,449 --> 00:46:10,489
and weird domes and then on to my next

1107
00:46:16,479 --> 00:46:13,459
thing after this yeah absolutely well

1108
00:46:18,789 --> 00:46:16,489
we're happy to have you man yeah yeah I

1109
00:46:20,649 --> 00:46:18,799
really I think it's fascinating now and

1110
00:46:22,239 --> 00:46:20,659
then the thing is like yeah of course I

1111
00:46:25,089 --> 00:46:22,249
fell into a lot of rabbit holes the

1112
00:46:27,069 --> 00:46:25,099
Majestic papers for one like aha we have

1113
00:46:29,559 --> 00:46:27,079
definite proof and then it's like Oh

1114
00:46:33,279 --> 00:46:29,569
turns out they were probably faked yep

1115
00:46:35,169 --> 00:46:33,289
welcome to my life yeah and maybe they

1116
00:46:37,630 --> 00:46:35,179
were faked although according to someone

1117
00:46:40,569 --> 00:46:37,640
who I really love and trust who's a

1118
00:46:42,039 --> 00:46:40,579
great filmmaker Chris munch I used to

1119
00:46:44,649 --> 00:46:42,049
try to get him on your show he's doing a

1120
00:46:46,630 --> 00:46:44,659
film about that Eisenhower meeting Chris

1121
00:46:48,759 --> 00:46:46,640
was saying yeah that the Majestic papers

1122
00:46:51,429 --> 00:46:48,769
are probably a hoax but he's a believer

1123
00:46:54,789 --> 00:46:51,439
yeah I I certainly believe there's

1124
00:46:57,449 --> 00:46:54,799
intelligence outside our planet that's I

1125
00:47:01,390 --> 00:46:57,459
don't think anyone would say otherwise

1126
00:47:04,630 --> 00:47:01,400
not at this point yeah visit could have

1127
00:47:06,909 --> 00:47:04,640
been more of a must you know what are

1128
00:47:08,949 --> 00:47:06,919
like mushroom spores kind of thing like

1129
00:47:10,419 --> 00:47:08,959
crystallized intelligence that could

1130
00:47:14,439 --> 00:47:10,429
live for billions of years and that's

1131
00:47:16,929 --> 00:47:14,449
how we we became associated we're all

1132
00:47:18,939 --> 00:47:16,939
Stardust we're all from multiple planets

1133
00:47:21,099 --> 00:47:18,949
right so I don't know what the

1134
00:47:22,839 --> 00:47:21,109
government knows yeah I don't I just

1135
00:47:25,569 --> 00:47:22,849
feel like I'm the one half the

1136
00:47:26,920 --> 00:47:25,579
government is is still working with like

1137
00:47:29,799 --> 00:47:26,930
old IBM

1138
00:47:31,089 --> 00:47:29,809
like green type you know like these are

1139
00:47:32,380 --> 00:47:31,099
the people who are keeping all these

1140
00:47:33,609 --> 00:47:32,390
secrets do you know what I mean that's

1141
00:47:36,400 --> 00:47:33,619
what I'm saying about gossip and all

1142
00:47:38,290 --> 00:47:36,410
that yeah but people have stepped

1143
00:47:40,660 --> 00:47:38,300
forward what's your what's your feel

1144
00:47:43,059 --> 00:47:40,670
like we'll go into our UFO chat mode

1145
00:47:45,250 --> 00:47:43,069
what's your feeling on Bob Lazar and

1146
00:47:47,260 --> 00:47:45,260
that that whole thing yeah so I mean

1147
00:47:49,930 --> 00:47:47,270
I've looked extensively we did a special

1148
00:47:52,210 --> 00:47:49,940
episode all about Bob Lazar and in the

1149
00:47:54,549 --> 00:47:52,220
the community the quote-unquote UFO

1150
00:47:57,430 --> 00:47:54,559
community is very divided on it and yeah

1151
00:47:59,740 --> 00:47:57,440
yeah you know I I personally I I give

1152
00:48:02,079 --> 00:47:59,750
him I want to give him the benefit of a

1153
00:48:05,230 --> 00:48:02,089
doubt I don't see what this man really

1154
00:48:07,210 --> 00:48:05,240
had to gain I mean he's sort of you know

1155
00:48:09,099 --> 00:48:07,220
been put through the wringer both

1156
00:48:11,710 --> 00:48:09,109
personally and professionally after

1157
00:48:14,859 --> 00:48:11,720
coming forward with all this so I don't

1158
00:48:17,290 --> 00:48:14,869
really see a motivation to lie about it

1159
00:48:19,900 --> 00:48:17,300
we've recently found people who have

1160
00:48:22,450 --> 00:48:19,910
worked with him at Los Alamos where

1161
00:48:24,940 --> 00:48:22,460
studied Word so there have been some

1162
00:48:28,960 --> 00:48:24,950
developments in that whole bob lazar

1163
00:48:30,670 --> 00:48:28,970
story but enough to definitively say yes

1164
00:48:32,710 --> 00:48:30,680
he was there he worked on what he said

1165
00:48:34,690 --> 00:48:32,720
no we'll never know it's just a story

1166
00:48:36,220 --> 00:48:34,700
just like all of these things I think

1167
00:48:39,250 --> 00:48:36,230
we'd deal with within the UFO community

1168
00:48:40,870 --> 00:48:39,260
and beyond so yeah I'm still on the

1169
00:48:43,270 --> 00:48:40,880
fence about it but I'm leaning more

1170
00:48:45,520 --> 00:48:43,280
towards believing a lot of his story

1171
00:48:47,680 --> 00:48:45,530
than disbelieving for sure yeah there

1172
00:48:49,900 --> 00:48:47,690
are elements where it seems like he made

1173
00:48:52,150 --> 00:48:49,910
some stuff up and then it's always hard

1174
00:48:54,370 --> 00:48:52,160
like my friend my friend Paul Wright who

1175
00:48:56,500 --> 00:48:54,380
I did the film about after robbing all

1176
00:48:59,170 --> 00:48:56,510
these banks he eventually went to prison

1177
00:49:01,990 --> 00:48:59,180
in prison he was put in a minimum

1178
00:49:04,450 --> 00:49:02,000
security facility and his buddy there

1179
00:49:06,370 --> 00:49:04,460
was little Arusha and if you're into

1180
00:49:08,319 --> 00:49:06,380
conspiracy stuff Lyndon LaRouche was a

1181
00:49:10,559 --> 00:49:08,329
real interesting squirrelly character

1182
00:49:14,109 --> 00:49:10,569
definitely involved with some dark stuff

1183
00:49:16,480 --> 00:49:14,119
but the thing is he knew he was smart

1184
00:49:19,150 --> 00:49:16,490
and like for every crazy thing he would

1185
00:49:23,109 --> 00:49:19,160
say like 90% crazy one would be really

1186
00:49:25,270 --> 00:49:23,119
true and and and brilliant so people are

1187
00:49:26,170 --> 00:49:25,280
shape shifters you know yes the art of

1188
00:49:27,640 --> 00:49:26,180
deception

1189
00:49:29,470 --> 00:49:27,650
well don't worry we're gonna be taking

1190
00:49:31,480 --> 00:49:29,480
the human out of all this according to

1191
00:49:33,460 --> 00:49:31,490
Elon Musk and I do believe he's a very

1192
00:49:35,230 --> 00:49:33,470
smart guy and apparently we're heading

1193
00:49:37,240 --> 00:49:35,240
towards the singularity for better or

1194
00:49:38,829 --> 00:49:37,250
worse hopefully for better and hopefully

1195
00:49:40,630 --> 00:49:38,839
they'll keep us around this pets or

1196
00:49:44,680 --> 00:49:40,640
something hopefully

1197
00:49:46,120 --> 00:49:44,690
oh my god I can only imagine what

1198
00:49:48,279 --> 00:49:46,130
Vanessa would have thought about all

1199
00:49:50,710 --> 00:49:48,289
this now going on with musk and everyone

1200
00:49:52,539 --> 00:49:50,720
well that's the thing that tassel was a

1201
00:49:54,490 --> 00:49:52,549
piece of love guy you know and that was

1202
00:49:56,529 --> 00:49:54,500
a radical message and that's not the way

1203
00:49:58,960 --> 00:49:56,539
things have transpired unfortunately

1204
00:50:00,940 --> 00:49:58,970
although some people would say we're in

1205
00:50:02,380 --> 00:50:00,950
a period now that's more peaceful than

1206
00:50:04,779 --> 00:50:02,390
ever you know what I mean there's always

1207
00:50:05,500 --> 00:50:04,789
another side to this to the story you

1208
00:50:08,039 --> 00:50:05,510
know the thing about good

1209
00:50:11,650 --> 00:50:08,049
science-fiction I've been starting to

1210
00:50:13,599 --> 00:50:11,660
reconnect with my professor of at McGill

1211
00:50:16,450 --> 00:50:13,609
where I went to college and he's the

1212
00:50:20,069 --> 00:50:16,460
world's one of the leading he's the

1213
00:50:22,839 --> 00:50:20,079
leading critic of science fiction and

1214
00:50:26,109 --> 00:50:22,849
these worlds in science fiction and

1215
00:50:28,750 --> 00:50:26,119
futurism are often very politically

1216
00:50:30,339 --> 00:50:28,760
radical they're utopianist they're

1217
00:50:32,589 --> 00:50:30,349
better world I'm not talking about your

1218
00:50:36,609 --> 00:50:32,599
Star Wars Star Wars space opera that's

1219
00:50:38,740 --> 00:50:36,619
just a Western with with ray guns I'm

1220
00:50:41,579 --> 00:50:38,750
talking about more Star Trek

1221
00:50:44,799 --> 00:50:41,589
you know alternate worlds of of

1222
00:50:47,980 --> 00:50:44,809
different possibilities often thinly

1223
00:50:50,470 --> 00:50:47,990
cloaked visions of utopia and often more

1224
00:50:53,740 --> 00:50:50,480
leading towards the left of the spectrum

1225
00:50:55,900 --> 00:50:53,750
in the film we really tried to show also

1226
00:50:59,650 --> 00:50:55,910
the whole economic set of it like that

1227
00:51:03,130 --> 00:50:59,660
that all these experiences are about

1228
00:51:05,259 --> 00:51:03,140
humanistic impulses and dignity for

1229
00:51:07,390 --> 00:51:05,269
people who have money or don't you know

1230
00:51:09,069 --> 00:51:07,400
yeah and that's that's like the special

1231
00:51:12,309 --> 00:51:09,079
world of the desert has been able to

1232
00:51:15,370 --> 00:51:12,319
kind of encapsulate both the rich and

1233
00:51:17,620 --> 00:51:15,380
the poor in maybe a better life and they

1234
00:51:19,569 --> 00:51:17,630
would have in the city Jonathan this has

1235
00:51:21,519 --> 00:51:19,579
been so awesome man I got asked where

1236
00:51:24,039 --> 00:51:21,529
can we find the film in all of your

1237
00:51:25,990 --> 00:51:24,049
other word oh yeah yeah thanks for

1238
00:51:28,809 --> 00:51:26,000
having me today I hope it makes some

1239
00:51:32,529 --> 00:51:28,819
sort of sense like I said just back for

1240
00:51:35,799 --> 00:51:32,539
Joshua Tree so am i operating on very

1241
00:51:37,660 --> 00:51:35,809
very altered realities right now hey I

1242
00:51:39,849 --> 00:51:37,670
got a challenger Mines every now and

1243
00:51:42,279 --> 00:51:39,859
again yeah I mean definitely drugs or

1244
00:51:45,160 --> 00:51:42,289
anything just just being there and the

1245
00:51:46,269 --> 00:51:45,170
beautiful landscape I mean people live

1246
00:51:49,029 --> 00:51:46,279
in the country I'm starting to

1247
00:51:52,240 --> 00:51:49,039
understand why they're like yeah I never

1248
00:51:54,099 --> 00:51:52,250
come to the city to you really really

1249
00:51:54,710 --> 00:51:54,109
see the stars there and you really do

1250
00:51:57,650 --> 00:51:54,720
connect

1251
00:52:01,010 --> 00:51:57,660
a very very deep level so this film is

1252
00:52:03,200 --> 00:52:01,020
available everywhere on iTunes on Amazon

1253
00:52:05,089 --> 00:52:03,210
Instant the one that you you know pay a

1254
00:52:08,300 --> 00:52:05,099
few bucks for you can download it from

1255
00:52:10,670 --> 00:52:08,310
iTunes and the Vudu and all those kind

1256
00:52:12,950 --> 00:52:10,680
of places every digital Xbox you name it

1257
00:52:15,260 --> 00:52:12,960
you can get calling all Earthlings and

1258
00:52:18,109 --> 00:52:15,270
then um you know if somebody wants to

1259
00:52:21,200 --> 00:52:18,119
show it at some kind of semi theatrical

1260
00:52:22,940 --> 00:52:21,210
uh you know theater or group that they

1261
00:52:24,740 --> 00:52:22,950
have they should get on they should

1262
00:52:27,050 --> 00:52:24,750
everybody should get on our website and

1263
00:52:28,609 --> 00:52:27,060
sign up for the mailing list I'm very

1264
00:52:31,220 --> 00:52:28,619
bad about the mail but I do send

1265
00:52:32,750 --> 00:52:31,230
something out every month or so keeping

1266
00:52:34,160 --> 00:52:32,760
you up on what would do it what we're

1267
00:52:35,839 --> 00:52:34,170
doing we're having a European premiere

1268
00:52:37,120 --> 00:52:35,849
and we have a few more screenings

1269
00:52:39,670 --> 00:52:37,130
including one at the anthropological

1270
00:52:42,589 --> 00:52:39,680
meeting in the American Anthropological

1271
00:52:44,780 --> 00:52:42,599
Association meeting in San Jose which is

1272
00:52:46,849 --> 00:52:44,790
exciting oh wow that's awesome yeah yeah

1273
00:52:48,670 --> 00:52:46,859
yeah totally different context yeah yeah

1274
00:52:51,680 --> 00:52:48,680
I might have to make a trip out there

1275
00:52:53,720 --> 00:52:51,690
awesome it well I mean I personally hope

1276
00:52:56,390 --> 00:52:53,730
there's more integratron ZUP there in

1277
00:52:58,310 --> 00:52:56,400
more films like yours you know in a time

1278
00:53:00,740 --> 00:52:58,320
where I think we need them now more than

1279
00:53:02,210 --> 00:53:00,750
ever let's be honest so it's a hard road

1280
00:53:04,430 --> 00:53:02,220
to hoe because the films that have been

1281
00:53:05,120 --> 00:53:04,440
done beforehand seem to be either like

1282
00:53:08,630 --> 00:53:05,130
sloppy

1283
00:53:11,720 --> 00:53:08,640
you know rapidly Pro you know just

1284
00:53:15,079 --> 00:53:11,730
cheesy UFO 1980s video shelf stuff or

1285
00:53:16,910 --> 00:53:15,089
quick TV films and I tried to take my

1286
00:53:18,620 --> 00:53:16,920
time that I am blessed with as a

1287
00:53:20,780 --> 00:53:18,630
professor to really think some of it

1288
00:53:24,109 --> 00:53:20,790
through and and tell these people

1289
00:53:26,270 --> 00:53:24,119
stories with dignity and and just show

1290
00:53:28,910 --> 00:53:26,280
multiple worlds multiple possibilities

1291
00:53:31,370 --> 00:53:28,920
well I really think you hit the mark man

1292
00:53:33,230 --> 00:53:31,380
again the film is calling all earthlings

1293
00:53:35,780 --> 00:53:33,240
Jonathan thank you so much for joining

1294
00:53:40,910 --> 00:53:35,790
me today thank you this was a blast I

1295
00:53:42,950 --> 00:53:40,920
feel transported that's it for this

1296
00:53:45,050 --> 00:53:42,960
week's episode again calling all

1297
00:53:47,900 --> 00:53:45,060
earthlings is available on most

1298
00:53:50,060 --> 00:53:47,910
streaming services or you can purchase

1299
00:53:52,570 --> 00:53:50,070
it right through the website calling all

1300
00:53:55,040 --> 00:53:52,580
Earthlings movie

1301
00:53:58,340 --> 00:53:55,050
somewhere in the skies recently hit

1302
00:54:02,120 --> 00:53:58,350
number one in its category on Apple

1303
00:54:04,130 --> 00:54:02,130
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1304
00:54:06,500 --> 00:54:04,140
much to all my Canadian listeners for

1305
00:54:08,990 --> 00:54:06,510
making this happen for my listeners in

1306
00:54:11,150 --> 00:54:09,000
the United States and abroad I hope

1307
00:54:13,910 --> 00:54:11,160
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1308
00:54:17,630 --> 00:54:13,920
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1309
00:54:20,630 --> 00:54:17,640
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1310
00:54:23,240 --> 00:54:20,640
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1311
00:54:25,280 --> 00:54:23,250
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1312
00:54:28,010 --> 00:54:25,290
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1313
00:54:29,840 --> 00:54:28,020
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1314
00:54:32,540 --> 00:54:29,850
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1315
00:54:36,580 --> 00:54:32,550
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1316
00:54:39,620 --> 00:54:36,590
visit patreon.com slash somewhere skies

1317
00:54:43,280 --> 00:54:39,630
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1318
00:54:45,770 --> 00:54:43,290
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1319
00:54:48,220 --> 00:54:45,780
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1320
00:54:51,830 --> 00:54:48,230
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1321
00:54:54,860 --> 00:54:51,840
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1322
00:54:58,070 --> 00:54:54,870
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1323
00:55:01,670 --> 00:54:58,080
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1324
00:55:05,330 --> 00:55:01,680
you to the e1 podcast network and kgr a

1325
00:55:07,340 --> 00:55:05,340
radio and thank you to all of you for

1326
00:55:09,680 --> 00:55:07,350
listening I'll see you here next week

1327
00:55:11,680 --> 00:55:09,690
and remember keep your feet on the

1328
00:55:13,360 --> 00:55:11,690
ground but never stop searching

1329
00:55:13,850 --> 00:55:13,370
somewhere in the Scots

1330
00:55:15,770 --> 00:55:13,860
[Music]

1331
00:55:33,780 --> 00:55:15,780
[Applause]

1332
00:55:36,819 --> 00:55:33,790
[Music]

1333
00:55:39,289 --> 00:55:36,829
[Applause]

1334
00:55:41,059 --> 00:55:39,299
somewhere in the skies is produced by

1335
00:55:42,980 --> 00:55:41,069
Third Kind productions in association

1336
00:55:44,779 --> 00:55:42,990
with the entertainment one podcast

1337
00:55:49,910 --> 00:55:44,789
network to learn more visit

1338
00:55:56,990 --> 00:55:54,410
[Music]

1339
00:55:59,930 --> 00:55:57,000
hello all you curious creatures out

1340
00:56:02,780 --> 00:55:59,940
there I'm a beret nah manager Mackay and

1341
00:56:04,970 --> 00:56:02,790
we are the hosts of into the portal if

1342
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you like myths legends history with

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paranormal twist join us every week as

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we explore the lesser-known mysteries of

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our world and beyond like the Braxton

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County monster that once lurked in the

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forests of flatwoods West Virginia or

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the mythical Thunderbirds giant terrors

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of the skies or even the mysterious

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underworld of Giza holding secrets of an

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ancient past you can find us on Apple

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podcasts Google Play Spotify and all

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other podcast platforms and of course at

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into the portal calm your gateway to the

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bizarre the only question is do you dare